This is a rush transcript from "Fox News Sunday," December 11, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: I’m Chris Wallace.
Today, the Trump way. We go on the road with President-elect Trump for his first Sunday show interview since winning the election.
WALLACE: The CIA has concluded that Russia intervened in the election to help you win the presidency.
We'll take you behind the scenes for an all-access look at a day in the life of the Trump transition.
Now, let's go to election night. You were prepared to lose.
And as he makes his unofficial debut as commander-in-chief at the Army/Navy game.
We sit down at Trump Tower to discuss the big decisions he's made so far and preview what's ahead, on the cabinet he's putting together.
Fair to say you're going to take a wrecking ball to the Obama legacy?
Whether he trusts the intelligence community.
These are the folks you're going to have to rely on to know what's going on in the world.
And, will he cut his ties to Trump businesses?
You're keeping your stake in "Celebrity Apprentice." You're going to keep your stake in your real estate business. Isn't that a huge conflict of interest, sir?
President-elect Donald Trump one on one. It's a "Fox News Sunday" exclusive.
Then, we'll ask our Sunday panel about some of the Trump picks who have been fighting the departments they're now set to lead.
All, right now, on "Fox News Sunday."
WALLACE: And hello again from Fox News in Washington.
Donald Trump is running a presidential transition unlike any other, acting in some ways as if he's already commander in chief.
Because of that, we're calling this hour "The Trump Way".
The president-elect sat down with us for his first in-depth interview since he started naming his cabinet and setting his agenda for an administration that starts in less than six weeks.
We began with breaking news. The explosive story that the CIA has determined Russia hacked into Democratic files not just to destabilize the U.S. election but to push a specific objective.
WALLACE: According to The Washington Post, the CIA has concluded that Russia intervened in the election to help you win the presidency. Your reaction?
DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESIDENT-ELECT: I think it's ridiculous. I think it's just another excuse. I don't believe it. I don't know why, and I think it's just -- you know, they talked about all sorts of things. Every week, it's another excuse.
We had a massive landslide victory, as you know, in the Electoral College. I guess the final numbers are now at 306. She's down to a very low number.
No, I don't believe that at all.
WALLACE: You say you don't know why. Do you think the CIA is trying to overturn the results of the election --
TRUMP: No, I don’t think --
WALLACE: -- somehow to weaken you in office?
TRUMP: Well, if you look at the story and you take a look at what they said, there's great confusion. Nobody really knows.
And hacking is very interesting. Once they hack, if you don't catch them in the act, you're not going to catch them. They have no idea if it's Russia or China or somebody. It could be somebody sitting in a bed some place. I mean, they have no idea.
WALLACE: So, why would the CIA put out this story that the Russians wanted you to win?
TRUMP: I’m not sure they put it out. I think the Democrats are putting it out because they suffered one of the greatest defeats in the history of politics in this country. And, frankly, I think they're putting it out. It's ridiculous.
We ought to get back to making America great again, which is what we're going to do. And we've already started the process.
WALLACE: You've said repeatedly you don't believe the intelligence community's analysis that the Russians were involved.
TRUMP: Take a look. They're not sure. They're fighting among themselves. They’re not sure.
WALLACE: But the question is, these are the folks you're going to have to rely on to know what's going on in the world?
TRUMP: Of course, we’re going to make (ph) changes, you know, at the top. I mean, we're going to have different people coming in because we have our people, they have their people. And I have great respect for them.
But if you read the stories, the various stories, they're disputing. And certain groups don't necessarily agree. Personally, it could be Russia. It -- I don't really think it is. But who knows? I don't know either. They don't know and I don't know.
WALLACE: I just want to ask you about your skepticism about the intelligence community. You are getting the presidential daily brief --
WALLACE: -- only once a week.
TRUMP: Well, I get it when I need it.
WALLACE: But is there some skepticism?
TRUMP: First of all, these are very good people that are giving me the briefings. If something should change from this point, immediately call me. I’m available on one minute's notice.
I don't have to be told -- you know, I’m like a smart person. I don't have to be told the same thing and the same words every single day for the next eight years. It could be eight years -- but eight years. I don't need that.
But I do say if something should change, let us know. Now, in the meantime, my generals are great, are being briefed. Mike Pence is being briefed, who is, by the way, one of my very good decisions. He's terrific. And they're being briefed. And I’m being briefed also.
But if they're going to come in and tell me the exact same thing that they told me, you know, that doesn't change necessarily. There might be times where it might change. I mean, there will be some very fluid situations. I'll be there not every day but more than that.
But I don't need to be told, Chris, the same thing every day, every morning, same words. Sir, nothing has changed. Let's go over it again. I don't need that.
WALLACE: President Obama just ordered a full review of Russia's involvement, hacking in the election. And Democrats are now calling for hearings.
Do you think this is part of an effort to undercut you?
TRUMP: Well, it could be. I think President Obama's been terrific. He's been very respectful of the process and everything else. So, I saw that.
But -- and I want it too. I think it's great. I think -- I don't want anyone hacking us. And I’m not only talking about countries. I’m talking about anyone, period.
But if you're going to do that, I think you should not just say Russia, you should say other countries also, and maybe other individuals. It’s not necessarily --
WALLACE: Do you think this is a political effort here?
TRUMP: It could be. I mean, it could be. Hey, look, we had many people saying one of the great victories of all time. They're very embarrassed.
WALLACE: We'll have much more of our exclusive interview with Mr. Trump a little later.
Who will he choose for secretary of state, and will he really cut all ties to the Trump businesses?
But first, we also went on a road trip with the president-elect to the Army/Navy game, a rivalry dating back to 1890. And along the way, we learned a lot about the style of our new commander-in-chief.
WALLACE: We pulled out of Trump Tower in a full-scale presidential motorcade. Streets in Midtown Manhattan were blocked off, and the crowd watched signaled how they felt about the president-elect.
At LaGuardia, we drove right up to Trump Force One. It was the first time we could find a president-elect was going to an Army/Navy game. Mr. Trump climbed on board the plane, he says, is a step up from Air Force One.
Much of his team was there. Chief of staff Reince Priebus and senior adviser Steve Bannon, national security adviser, General Mike Flynn, and Rudy Giuliani, who just took himself out of the running for secretary of state.
Once we leveled off, I asked the president-elect about his new life.
Army/Navy game, in a sense, is this your unofficial debut as commander-in-chief?
TRUMP: No, it's just something I’ve wanted to see. It's beautiful. It's hopefully going to be a good game. But really just something I want to see. It's the Armed Forces, the way I look at it. And I love and respect the Armed Forces.
I mean, it's going to be -- I think we're going to have a good time.
WALLACE: You spent five years at the New York Military Academy, a boarding school, where you became the captain of cadets. What did you learn there about military discipline?
TRUMP: Well, I learned that I respected it. I respect people in the military. And I always have, at least since I’ve been there.
And we had military people there. We had drill sergeants and colonels. We actually had a general. I always respected those people. I learned at a young age, they're terrific.
WALLACE: There is a lot of curiosity about your lifestyle as president. Are you going to live in the White House? Are you going to spend most of your time at Trump Tower?
TRUMP: No, I’m going to live in the White House with my family. Baron is going to finish up school because he's got just a couple months to go. So, it's a little hard to take him out of school. And Melania will be back and forth for that first couple of months.
No, we'll be staying in the White House.
WALLACE: You talk about the fact that Mrs. Trump is going to stay back in New York with Baron until he finishes school. Are you going to be lonely rattling around in the White House by yourself for a few months?
TRUMP: No, I'll be working. I'll be working. It's a very special place and it represents so much. And there's a lot to do. There's a lot to do. More than I even thought.
It’s -- so many things we can do to make America great again. That's what it's all about. And I'll be working. I won't be lonely at all.
WALLACE: Are your daughter Ivanka and her husband Jared Kushner, are they moving to Washington?
TRUMP: Well, we're working that out right now. They're both very talented people. I won't be involved in my business at all, even though I have a legal right to be under the laws, as you know, because the president has a certain doctrine that he can do things.
But I just don't want to do it. Even if I could do it, which I’m allowed to, I wouldn't want to. I want to devote my time --
WALLACE: What about them? Are they going to -- are they moving?
TRUMP: Well, theirs is a little bit different. And I think we'll have to see how the laws read. I would love to be able to have them involved.
If you look at Ivanka, you take a look, she's so strong, as you know, to the women’s issue and childcare, and so many things she’d be so good. Nobody can do better than her. I'd just have to see whether or not we can do that. She'd like to do that.
I'd love to have Jared helping us on deals with other nations and see if we can do peace in the Middle East and other things. He's very talented. He's a very talented guy. So, we're looking at that from a legal standpoint right now.
WALLAC: Then, it was on to the stadium for the game.
First, a meeting with a group of Army cadets and Navy midshipmen.
TRUMP: Who's going to win? Who's going to win?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One picture, one picture.
WALLACE: And when he appeared in public to greet the crowd from a balcony, he received a big ovation.
Later, we asked the president-elect about attending a game that now has special resonance for him.
So, what do you think?
TRUMP: I think it's fantastic. These are incredible people. You see the enthusiasm, the spirit. Incredible.
WALLACE: You're going to be the commander-in-chief in six weeks.
WALLACE: You're going to be in charge of these young men and women. Thoughts about that?
TRUMP: Big responsibility. We have to make the right decisions. You know, it really is -- it's a daunting responsibility. And we'll do the job.
WALLACE: And if you missed it, Army beat Navy 21-17, its first victory over the midshipmen in 15 years.
Coming up, much more of our exclusive interview with Donald Trump. We ask him to clear up exactly where he stands on climate change and about that big cabinet pick he still has to make for secretary of state -- as "Fox News Sunday" continues its special coverage of "The Trump Way".
WALLACE: And we're back now with our exclusive interview with Donald Trump. The campaign is over, but the president-elect continues to break the rules when it comes to building his administration and setting his agenda. And that's where we began this part of the conversation.
WALLACE: We're calling this program "The Trump Way", because I got to tell you, in almost 40 years of covering presidential transitions, I’ve never seen anything like this. You are setting markers for foreign countries. You're telling corporations and unions what to do. And you're in the even in office yet.
What can we expect when you're actually the president?
TRUMP: I want to make good deals for this country. I don't need a $4.2 billion airplane to fly around in, OK? I don't need that, especially when it's totally out of control. You know, they've lost control of it. I let them know that I don't want this.
I just see things that’s -- if you look at the F-35 program with the money, the hundreds of billions of dollars, and it's out of control. And the people that are making these deals for the government, they should never be allowed to go to work for these companies.
You know, they make a deal like that and two or three years later, you see them working for these companies that made the deal. I’m going to a very -- you know, lobbyists I’m doing. This is bigger than the lobbyists. When people order from these massive companies, these massive deals, I don't want the people making these horrible -- and they're horrible deals -- the overruns, the cost overruns, I don't want them going to work for the companies after the deals are made. They should have a lifetime restriction.
WALLACE: In the last few days, you have named cabinet heads, Department Agency people at EPA, at labor, at health and human services, education, who are diametrically opposed to what those agencies have been doing for the last eight years. Fair to say you're going to take a wrecking ball to the Obama legacy?
TRUMP: No, no. No, I don't want to do that at all. I just want what's right. EPA, you can't get things approved. People are waiting in line for 15 years before they get rejected, OK?
That's why people don't want to invest in this country. I mean, you look at what's going on -- and you can look at a jobs report, but take a look at the real jobs report, which are the millions of people that gave up looking for work, and they're not considered in that number that's less than 5 percent. OK?
I mean, we have jobs that are in the pipeline, and I deal with all the executives, the big ones and the small ones. I have really gotten to know this country.
And when you have to wait 10 and 15 years for an approval and then you don't even get the approval, it's no good.
WALLACE: Let me ask you --
TRUMP: So, we're going to clean it up. We're going to speed it up. And, by the way, if somebody is not doing the right thing, we're not going to approve.
WALLACE: Let's talk about the environment because in the last week, you met with Al Gore and you met with Leo DiCaprio, famous environmentalist.
TRUMP: Sure. And they were good meetings.
WALLACE: On the other hand, you appointed Oklahoma Attorney General Scott Pruitt to be head of the EPA.
TRUMP: Sped up (ph) the process.
WALLACE: He's been suing EPA.
WALLACE: At one point in the campaign, you said it's a hoax.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Yes, I think it's a big scam for a lot of people to make a lot of money. In the meantime, China is eating our lunch because they don't partake in all of the rules and regulations that we do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: On the other hand, you told The New York Times, you're open-minded about it.
TRUMP: I am open-minded.
WALLACE: So, where are you on the environment?
TRUMP: I’m still open-minded. Nobody really knows.
I’ve -- look, I’m somebody that gets it. And nobody really knows. It's not something that's so hard and fast.
I do know this: other countries are eating our lunch. If you look at what China is doing, if you look at what -- I could name country after country. You look at what's happening in Mexico where our people -- just our plants are being built. They don't wait ten years to get an approval to build a plant, OK? They build it like the following day or the following week.
We can't let all of these permits that take forever to get stop our jobs. I won because of the fact that people that are great, great American people have been forgotten. I call them the forgotten man and the forgotten woman. They've been forgotten.
And you, in all fairness, and all of the folks in your world, and business, you forgot about these people. They're not going to forget about them in four years. They're already trying to figure out what happened. But I understood it because I understand our country.
WALLACE: Let me ask you a couple specific questions. Will you still pull out of the Paris climate agreement, which has been signed by more than 100 countries to reduce carbon emissions? Will you restart the Dakota Access Pipeline, which the Army just stopped?
TRUMP: OK. Let me not answer the Dakota because perhaps that'll be solved by the time I get there, so I don't have to create enemies on one side or the other. But I will tell you when I get to office, if it's not solved, I'll have it solved very quickly.
WALLACE: Meaning you're going to start it?
TRUMP: I’m not saying anything. I just say something will happen, and it'll be quick. I think it's very unfair. So, it'll start one way or the other.
WALLACE: And Paris?
TRUMP: You’ll have a decision pretty quickly. And also, the Keystone Pipeline, you're going to have a decision fairly quickly. And you'll see that.
Now, Paris, I’m studying. I do say this -- I don't want that agreement to put us at a competitive disadvantage with other countries. As you know, there are different times and different time limits on that agreement. I don't want that to give China or other countries signing agreements and advantage over us.
WALLACE: You have already named three retired generals for top positions. Any concern about having too --
WALLACE: -- many military men at the top of your administration?
TRUMP: Well, President Obama named three generals also. And, you know, these are tremendous people. Sort of in certain cases, they transitioned into civilian life.
But I like generals. I think generals are terrific. You know, they go through schools and sort of end up at the top of the pyramid. And it's like a test.
They passed the test of life. That's how they got to be a general and other people didn't. So I sort of like generals. I like the three that I have very, very much.
WALLACE: Have you settled on a secretary of state?
TRUMP: I’m getting very close. Getting very, very close.
WALLACE: Do you know who it's going to be?
TRUMP: I just have -- I have someone in mind that I think will be really fabulous. I think we're going to have one of the great cabinets ever put together. We're getting that kind of review.
WALLACE: Let me ask you about Rex Tillerson, head of ExxonMobil. Why does a business executive make sense as the chief diplomat?
TRUMP: Well, in his case, he's much more than a business executive. I mean, he's a world class player. He's in charge of, I guess, the largest company in the world. He's in charge of an oil company that's pretty much double the size of his next nearest competitor. It's been a company that's been unbelievably managed.
And to me, a great advantage is he knows many of the players. And he knows them well. He does massive deals in Russia. He does massive deals for the company, not for himself, but the company.
WALLACE: He's the secretary of state --
TRUMP: No, no, but I have -- I have tremendous respect for him. He's a world class player.
WALLACE: I’m trying to get you to say --
TRUMP: I have others -- I know you are and you're doing very well. But I have others also that I think -- I mean, Bob Corker is a fantastic guy. Mitt Romney, I’ve really gotten to know him, and I get along with him really well.
But these are -- you know, these are all very different types of people. But when you ask me about Rex, I mean, he's a world-class player. There's no question about it.
WALLACE: Just after our interview, there were media reports that Mr. Trump has decided to name Tillerson to be secretary of state. He denied he's made a final decision. And during our ride on Trump Force One, he was still asking his advisers who they think he should nominate, but don't bet against Rex Tillerson.
Coming up, we ask Mr. Trump about his controversial call with the president of Taiwan. Was he sending China a message? And what will become of his business once he's sworn in? As "Fox News Sunday's The Trump Way" continues.
WALLACE: Coming up, Donald Trump tries to draw a line between the presidency and all his businesses.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: You're keeping your stake in "Celebrity Apprentice."
TRUMP: I’m so focused on doing a great job as president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: We'll ask our Sunday panel about possible conflicts of interest Mr. Trump may encounter, next on "Fox News Sunday."
WALLACE: And we're back now with this special edition of "Fox News Sunday," "The Trump Way".
Donald Trump rattled the relationship between China and the U.S. when he spoke with the leader of Taiwan, breaking with decades of U.S. diplomacy. Now, he's doubling down on that decision.
Back to our exclusive interview with the president-elect.
WALLACE: You recently took a call from the president of Taiwan, and on the Sunday shows, including ours, some of your top aides said, oh, it was just a congratulatory call. But the next day, some of your top aides said, no, in fact, you had been thinking about this for weeks in advance to send a message.
So, which is it?
TRUMP: Oh, it’s all wrong. No, no. It's all wrong. Not weeks.
I took a call. I heard the call was coming probably an hour or two before. I fully understand the One-China policy. But I don't know why we have to be bound by a One-China policy unless we make a deal with China having to do with other things, including trade.
I mean, look, we're being hurt very badly by China with devaluation, with taxing us heavy at the borders when we don't tax them, with building a massive fortress in the middle of the South China Sea, which they shouldn't be doing.
And, frankly, they're not helping us at all with North Korea. You have North Korea, you have nuclear weapons, and China could solve that problem. And they're not helping us at all.
So, I don't want China dictating to me. And this was a call put into me. I didn't make the call. And it was a call, very short call, saying, "Congratulations, sir, on the victory." It was a very nice call. Short.
And why should some other nation be able to say, I can't take a call? I think it would have been very disrespectful, to be honest with you, not taking it.
WALLACE: You recently intervened with Carrier to save about a thousand jobs from moving to Mexico.
WALLACE: You've said at one of your rallies you're asking for a list of ten companies that are thinking about sourcing so you can call them as well. Should the president of the United States be calling companies? I mean, how would you have felt if Barack Obama gets on the phone and says, "Hey, Donald, here's how I want you to do business"?
TRUMP: I would have been honored. So, let me just tell you --
TRUMP: -- I don't have to do it myself. I have great people. We have top, top smart people. But it's so easy to do.
And we're going to have to impose a major tax on companies that leave, bill their product, and think they're going to sell it right to our border, like we’re a bunch of --
WALLACE: What happen to the free market, sir?
TRUMP: That is -- that's not free market when they go out and move and sell back into our country.
WALLACE: But that's the free market. They've made a decision that makes --
TRUMP: No, that's the dumb market, OK? That's the dumb market.
I’m a big free trader. But it has to be fair. So, what's happened is we have lost, over a period of years, short years, 70,000 factories in this country. Chris, 70,000.
I always say to people, I think it's a typo. How could it be so many? Seventy thousand factories. We're being stripped of our workers. We're being -- I mean, we're being stripped of our jobs, our good jobs are really good down, and we've got to stop it. And the only way you're going to stop it, the nice way is, we're reducing taxes very substantially for companies so they’re not going to have to leave because of taxes. We'll be reducing regulations. Now those are the nice ways of doing it and everyone loves it and everyone’s happy. Businesses, way down. Also middle class, but way down, OK, taxes and regulations.
But when a company wants to move to Mexico or another company -- or another country and they want to build a nice, beautiful factory and they want to sell their product through our border, no tax, and the people that all got fired, so we end up with unemployment and debt, and they end up with jobs and factories and all of the other things, not going to happen that way. And the way you stop it is by imposing a tax.
Now, I've come up with a number of 35 percent. There is no tax if you don't leave. There is no tax at all. You know, people are saying, they don't understand, really, what I'm doing. I read The Wall Street Journal the other day. Honestly, their editorial board doesn't get it. I don't think they understand business. I don't think The Wall Street Journal editorial board -- and I know some of them. They're really nice. I don't think they understand business. They don't understand what I'm saying.
There's a 35 percent tax, but there is no tax if you don't move. But if you move your plant or factory and you want to sell back into our country, you fire all your people, there are going to be consequences for that. There are going to be consequences. You know what’s going to happen?
TRUMP: I’ll tell you.
TRUMP: Nobody’s going to move. They're not going to move. They're not going to leave. They're going to stay here.
WALLACE: You're keeping your stake in "Celebrity Apprentice." According to The New York Times, you're going to shift operations, but you're going to keep your stake in your real estate business.
TRUMP: Well, essentially I'm not going to have anything to do with the management of the company.
WALLACE: I know, but isn't that a huge conflict of interest, sir?
TRUMP: When I ran, everybody knew that I -- I was a very big owner of real estate all over the world. I mean, I'm not going to have anything to do with the management of the company. You know, when you sell real estate, that's not like going out and selling a stock. That takes a long time. It takes -- I have -- I'm going to have nothing to do with it. And I’ll -- I'll be honest with you, I don't care about it anymore. I'm so focused on doing a great job as president, I don't care if our rent (ph) (INAUDIBLE) goes up a little bit or down. I couldn’t care less.
WALLACE: But you hammered --
TRUMP: My -- my executives will run it with my children. It's a big company. It's a great company. But I'm going to have nothing to do with management. I --
WALLACE: But you hammered Hillary Clinton over the Clinton Foundation and pay --
TRUMP: Well, that's different because --
WALLACE: And what -- and --
TRUMP: She's taken in massive amounts of money from foreign countries and other things.
WALLACE: And pay to play.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It is impossible to figure out where the Clinton Foundation ends and the State Department begins. It is now abundantly clear that's the Clintons set up a business to profit from public office.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: This is different.
WALLACE: Well, wait a minute, you're going to be making a massive amount of money.
TRUMP: No. If -- if like somebody rents a hotel -- a hotel room.
WALLACE: Wait, wait, country -- wait, wait, foreign -- foreign countries are already booking events at the Trump Hotel in D.C. You've got business operations, deals with foreign countries. I mean isn’t this on --
TRUMP: Chris, this is all stuff that’s done --
WALLACE: Isn’t this on steroids that --
TRUMP: No. No.
WALLACE: Foreign interests trying to curry favor with the president of the United States.
TRUMP: If I were going to do new deals right now, I am turning down billions of dollars of deals. I will tell you, running for president, the money I spent is peanuts compared to the money I won't make. And that's OK because this is so important. What I'm doing is so important.
This is a calling. This is so -- this is a movement. It’s not just me, it's millions and millions of people. You got to see it firsthand. I'm not going to be doing deals at all. No, that would be -- I don't even know if that's a conflict. I mean I -- I have the right to do it. You know under the law I have the right to do it. I just don't want to do it. I don't want to do deals because I want to focus on this.
But by my not doing deals, I turned down seven deals with one big player, great player, last week because I thought it could be perceived as a conflict of interest.
WALLACE: But your -- are you going to be able to do it (ph).
TRUMP: It was -- it was probably a billion dollars of deals that I turned down because it was --
WALLACE: But if your kids do it, isn't it going to be the same thing?
TRUMP: No, it's totally different. They're not -- they’re not -- they’re not president. I mean, they’re not president. But they're not going to do it either. Oh, I see what you're getting at. No, they're not making deals either for my company.
TRUMP: They're not making deals. And they're going to run my company. I have a lot of property and great stuff. They're going to run it. They’re going to run it. Hopefully they're going to run it properly. I'm sure they're going to run it properly. But I'm not going to do deals. And I think, you know, I think that's going to be good.
WALLACE: How many times have you spoken to Barack Obama since you were in the Oval Office with him? What do you guys talk about? And has he persuaded you on any of his policies?
TRUMP: So we disagree on things, but we haven't really discussed things that we disagree on. I've spoken to him another time. I'm going to be speaking to him today actually. He has treated me really well. He's made us feel very welcome.
WALLACE: But on the Iran nuclear deal, relations with Cuba?
TRUMP: Well, I don't want to tell you what we discuss, but -- and some of it I've agreed with him a lot. You know, people don't read about the stuff that you agree on. But there are things that we disagree on. And probably never going to be able to change that. But we do get along well. I'm -- I’m surprised at how well we get along. And I think he might say the same thing. And I think you're seeing that from him.
WALLACE: Mr. President-elect --
TRUMP: Thank you.
WALLACE: Thank you for your time.
TRUMP: Thank you. Thank you very much.
WALLACE: And joining me now to discuss the interview with the president-elect is our Sunday group. Syndicated columnist George Will, Charles Lane of The Washington Post, Jason Riley from The Wall Street Journal and the Manhattan Institute, and Julie Pace, who covers the White House and the transition for the Associated Press.
Well, Jason, let's start with the story, this explosive story, that the CIA has concluded that the Russians intervened in the campaign, not just to destabilize it, but to try to help Donald Trump win. Now, today there are reports of a split between the CIA and the FBI, which apparently isn't ready to say that the Russians were pushing for Trump. But, one, what do you make of the story, and what do you make from what you heard today of Trump's reaction?
JASON RILEY, MANHATTAN INSTITUTE FELLOW: Well, I think Donald Trump is right, the Democrats are hyping this because they're still not over losing the election. He's also right, I think, that the hackers in all likelihood did not determine the result.
But cybersecurity in today's world is a series issue, both in the business world and in politics, so it needs to be taken seriously by the president. And I think we should get to the bottom of this. Clearly someone was trying to do something to embarrass one side or the other. And his focus should be on getting to the bottom of this.
So he’s -- also says -- you know, I think it's important that he not undermine the integrity of these intelligence agencies that he'll be in charge of going forward. He says he’s going to bring in his own people and then he will trust what they say more. Well, he's tapped Mike Pompeo to head --
WALLACE: A congressman.
RILEY: The congressman, to head CIA. Throughout the campaign, Pompeo was one of the people who said, in all likelihood, both Russia and China were behind the hacks.
WALLACE: Julie, I'm going to pick up on exactly that, because it’s -- it’s clear, it comes through in the interview with the president-elect that he has real doubts about the intelligence community, and yet these, as I said in the interview and as Jason just pointed out, those are the folks he's going to have to rely on for his assessment of what's going on.
JULIE PACE, ASSOCIATED PRESS: Absolutely, even though he will be bringing in a new CIA director, other top-level officials at those agencies. The agencies don't completely change over. These are the same people who are going to be making these kind of assessments. And while it's not rare to have some level of disagreement within the intel community, while it's not rare for White Houses to sometimes question the intelligence, it is exceptionally rare to have it happen in public in the way that we're seeing it play out. And I think for a lot of people in the intel community, it's going to raise questions about how their recommendations are viewed going forward. I think there was one line in the interview that was so striking when the president-elect was talking about how he's receiving information. He says he gets the intel briefings when I need it. And by their very nature, you often don't know when you need the intel information. So I think we will see if he changes his impressions when he actually is in office and he actually has the responsibility to be acting on intelligence. But right now I think there are a lot of concerns within the intel community.
WALLACE: We asked you for questions for the panel. And on this issue of the CIA just saying that Russia was trying to help Mr. Trump, we got this on Facebook from Kathleen Nenneman. She writes, "why is it so hard to believe and trust that Mr. Trump won on his own merit? If it's not a recount, fake news, racist middle class, it's the Russians. Pretty soon the liberals will run out of things to use as an excuse for losing. Then what? Global warming and its effect on the population?"
George, I mean, the story about the CIA's conclusion comes at the same time that President Obama is calling for a full review by the intelligence agencies about Russian involvement, at the same time that the congressional democrats are calling for a congressional -- hearings about this whole thing. How do you answer Kathleen? I mean is this political? Is this sour grapes?
GEORGE WILL, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: There's an underlying fact pattern that has to be discovered and then we'll know something more about the motives. From Pearl Harbor to the Bay of Pigs, to the Tet Offensive, to Saddam's nonexistent weapons of mass destruction, there are ample cases justifying skepticism about the intelligence agency. Not because they’re great people, they are, but they make mistakes. They're fallible.
What makes Mr. Trump's position somewhat radical is he's not questioning the analysis, the conclusions they draw from the fact. He's questioning their mastery of the facts themselves. The CIA and the FBI are in agreement that there's a fact pattern here that points toward the Russians. They differ about the question of motives, whether -- whether the Russians were trying to elect someone.
WILL: But, for example, the malware used to attack the Democratic National Committee is in essence a Russian fingerprint according to the FBI.
WALLACE: And -- and let me just say, you're right. I mean Donald Trump continues to say this could be some guy in his pajamas in his mom's basement.
WILL: Yes, exactly. Now, think of the problem the -- the difficult, awkward position the Obama administration was in before the election because they had a lot of this. They didn't want to get in the condition that Comey was in. Now this will go to Congress after the 20th, and this will be the first test of the Republicans. Will they proceed on an investigation that perhaps their president doesn't want?
WALLACE: And -- and I have to say, Chuck, it does have a little bit of a feeling of payback for Benghazi, that -- that the Republicans spent -- obviously you were nodding -- you know, that the Republicans spent all these years going after Hillary Clinton on Benghazi and sure enough the Democrats -- of course Democrats aren't in control, they can't call these hearings, but that maybe they are going to try to politicize this issue of whether Donald Trump is there with the aid and assistance of the Russians.
CHARLES LANE, THE WASHINGTON POST: Well, you know, we have to keep two things separate, whether the Russians interfered and whether it determined anything. I mean it's quite possible that they interfered and did not determine the outcome. I think that's the likely scenario.
But, don't forget, there's a couple of Republicans, John McCain and Lindsay Graham, admittedly no great friends of Donald Trump, but they're taking this issue seriously and talking about it. It's a purely partisan thing and it’s a good opportunity for Donald Trump, who doesn't seem to want to take it right now, to go to a higher ground and support an objective investigation if Congress wants to have one.
WALLACE: Panel, we have to take a break here, but when we come back, more from our exclusive interview with the president-elect. And Mr. Trump takes us back to the ups and downs of election nights as "Fox News Sunday's The Trump Way" continues.
WALLACE: And we're back with our Sunday panel to continue the discussion of what Mr. Trump said in our exclusive interview.
George, as you may have noticed, we called this hour "The Trump Way." Have you ever seen a transition like this one in all your years in Washington where the president-elect seems to be taking over?
WILL: Nothing remotely like this. At the Army/Navy game, he said to you, the presidency is a daunting responsibility. He looks completely undaunted to me.
WALLACE: I -- I totally agree with that. Let me say, he seems, not that he's unmindful of the responsibility, but he's comfortable assuming the role of president, assuming the role of commander in chief.
WILL: He is wielding power now. He wielded it in the Carrier case. He still has 40 days to go before he stands at the Capitol and gets sworn in. Just think if we were in this position we were in, in 1932 when Roosevelt comes in and they still didn't inaugurate a president until March 4th. That caused all kinds of problems because Hoover tried to entangle FDR in his own policies.
Mr. Obama’s in a very difficult position here because he's sitting there saying, technically I'm president, and Mr. Trump is not impressed by that technicality.
WALLACE: No. And, in fact, sometimes you have to remind yourself of that, that Mr. Obama’s still president, which brings me to you, Julie Pace. What do they make of this at the White House, the degree to which Mr. Trump is taking over?
PACE: I think they do find is unusual to some extent. I think there was some expectation, particularly when they thought it was going to be Clinton who was elected, that Obama would have some more freedoms during this last couple of weeks because he would be handing off to someone who presumably would keep whatever he was doing in place. You're not seeing Obama enact a lot of policies. He is doing some small bore measures, some cleanup right now.
But I think the most important thing that's happening at the White House right now is what's going on behind the scenes in terms of Obama's conversations with Trump. I am told they are speaking on a somewhat regular basis and that the president-elect is asking very real questions, actually trying to get some guidance from President Obama. And I think the -- the White House sees this as an opportunity to try to preserve some of what's in place right now, try to make their sales pitch to the president-elect before he ends up in the White House.
WALLACE: Chuck, Mr. Trump is holding a news conference this week to announce what his relationship is going to be with his various business interests. But from his answers in our interview, it didn't sound to me like he's going to pass muster with the ethics police.
LANE: You know, he seemed to be driving at this kind of distinction between the kind of existing business of whatever it is, the Trump Organization, and any new business.
WALLACE: That's exactly what I got -- took from it too, deals.
LANE: Right. Right. We won't do anything new, but I will turn it over to my family, I guess, and my managers to handle the existing. We have -- George and I were talking about this before the show. We couldn't come up with a -- a comparable example in American history -- the history of the American presidency. The closest I can think of is old Zachary Taylor in the 19th century who had a big plantation in Louisiana that he was running while president. But that's partly to Trump's advantage in the sense that he's saying, well, look, this has never happened before, so I can kind of make up a rule with all this discretion that I have.
The problem, of course, is that, as you said, this is Clinton Foundation on steroids. All the people doing business with the Trump Organization, even if it's not a new deal, are going to be naturally thinking like, how can this help me if I do this, that, or the other thing. And it is going to be a standing issue. He could have solved it, I think, with more disclosure, but we know he's not a big disclosure guy from the whole tax return issue.
WALLACE: I want to -- Jason, I want to dig down into what he could do. I mean presidents traditionally have stocked, they have investments, and they put those in a blind trust and that's pretty simple. Here's a guy who owns buildings that have Trump splashed all of them. And as he said in the interview, you can't sell a building in a day or a week or a month. I mean that’s a -- that’s a big deal. So what reasonably could he be expected to do to divest himself or separate himself from these buildings, these interests?
RILEY: I -- I -- I think there are limits to what he can do. Transparency would help. But I -- I'm worried more, Chris, about the pendulum swinging too far in the other direction. If we're going to require everyone running for elected office to divest, we’re going to end up with professional politicians like Obama and Clinton. And I don't know that that's healthy.
What -- we -- we elected a businessman. And I think the press needs to get used to that. This is a non-politician who's in office who's had a past life building assets and so forth. And what we can ask of him is -- is transparency. Yes, conflicts will arise from time to time. We can find independent agencies to deal with those on a case-by-case basis. I don't think this is as big a deal as the press is making of it (ph).
WALLACE: Well, I want -- but I want to ask you about that because there are small cases like apparently the Trump Hotel here in D.C., suddenly every foreign government is booking their Christmas party or whatever. I -- that’s fairly small, I mean, when you're talking about the -- the cost of a -- a conference room. But President-elect Trump had a phone call with the president of the Philippines, Duterte, a pretty controversial character. He's got the Trump Tower in Manila going on there. And to the degree that there's something going on with the Trump Tower in Manila that might benefit his company, even an existing hotel, is that something that people are going to say, well, gosh, he's making money, or that --
RILEY: Well --
WALLACE: Or conversely that it’s a way for them to curry favor.
RILEY: That's why transparency is important here and that everyone's interests have to be out there on the table. But I don't think the -- the American people are -- are -- are thinking that Trump is -- is going to use this position to make money. I think he's right when he says, I could make much more money not being president than I can as being president. And I think the American people respect it. Again, they elected a businessman. They elected a nonpolitician. And I don't think that they're expecting as much as the press is expecting.
WALLACE: The American people may respect it, but, Chuck, I'm not sure the media is going to respect it. I would think they're going to -- we are going to be all over him.
LANE: This -- this is what reporters call a target-rich environment because every single hotel, business deal, land, whatever, will be fly specked for any -- I mean you just -- the one you said in the -- about the Philippines is a perfect example. And it would make all the difference in the world if the president-elect himself had a somewhat different affect and attitude about this. His attitude in the interview with you was very defiant and he said -- and he invoked some vague doctrine that says, you know, the law says I can do --
WALLACE: Well, no, no, but in fairness, the -- the conflict of interest laws, correct me if I'm wrong, do not apply to the president and the vice president.
LANE: That's true, but he could say, and he didn't, it doesn't mattering, I’m going beyond that. It doesn't matter because the absolute need to avoid any appearance of impropriety, I'm going to go the extra mile. And he seems actually to be taking the position like, I'm going to do the minimum that I'm entitled to do.
WALLACE: So, Julie, we have less than a minute left. You’re -- as somebody who's going to be in the front row of the Trump press room, how big a deal is this going to be?
PACE: I think it's -- I think it’s going to be a significant part of our coverage of the presidency. I don't think it's going to be every day the dominant story. But if I'm President-elect Trump, I would want the American people to know that I don't have any conflicts of interest. I think it's in his interest for his presidency to be more transparent, to be more clear with the public. Whether they care or not, I think it's in his interest to give us more information going forward. It would be less of an issue the more transparent he is.
WALLACE: I think Donald Trump's going to determine his own interests, not Julie Pace.
Thank you, panel. See you next Sunday.
Coming up, Donald Trump, in his own words, as he takes us back to election night and describes his emotions as the vote came in.
WALLACE: A look at Trump Force One, Donald Trump's iconic plane that we took from New York City to yesterday's Army/Navy game in Baltimore.
On that flight, Mr. Trump shared what was going through his mind on a long election night. You may be surprised.
TRUMP: Well, I thought I was going to win big, and then I got these exit polls from you and others, and I was called by Ivanka. I was called by Jared. And they say these exit polls are looking good. And I felt OK because -- I wouldn't say great, but I felt OK because I don't think anybody ever worked harder in that last, you know, couple of months. I think I outworked everybody.
WALLACE: You were prepared to lose?
TRUMP: Well, do we have a choice, right? But I was very surprised because I thought we were going to win.
WALLACE: When did you begin to think, you know what, this may turn out OK?
TRUMP: Almost immediately when the first polls started coming in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIT HUME, FOX NEWS: A victory for Donald Trump in Ohio.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: As an example, Ohio came out. We were expected to win Ohio by two points or three points, and we won by almost ten points. We were expected to win Iowa by five or four, and we won by more than ten.
WALLACE: Now it's around midnight, and Pennsylvania is too close to call, Michigan’s too close to call, Wisconsin. That's the difference between winning or losing the presidency. How tough was that to wait for hours?
TRUMP: It was so easy because they weren't too close to call. There were very little --
WALLACE: Yes, they were.
TRUMP: No -- well, no, you people, I think you were just trying to get some more commercial time in there because, honestly, Pennsylvania had 1 percent left and I was leading by a tremendous number of votes. There was no possible way. Wisconsin, I was leading by a lot of votes and there was very little left.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HUME: Donald Trump will be the 45th president of the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: Do you remember who the first person was to say "Mr. President"?
TRUMP: My wife, my family, my daughter, and then everybody just started going crazy.
WALLACE: And -- and -- and that moment, when they say, "Mr. President," president of the United States, what did you think?
TRUMP: Well, it is a very surreal situation. I mean all your life you're watching that on television. There's nothing better to watch. I know the folks at ESPN were saying that's one of the great things they've ever watched. You know, they watch all the great games and the fights and all of the things and they said, one of them said it's the single greatest event they've ever seen. Boy, that map had a lot of red. You know, for people that were saying that there is no path -- you know, before they were starting (ph) to say, here --
WALLACE: All right, I did -- I said that. I said, well, he’s got a very narrow path to 270.
TRUMP: Yes, unless you win states that nobody's ever won before as a Republican. So it was a very exciting evening. And I’ll tell you, the thing I'm most excited about is doing a great job. That's what I'm most excited about because that's where it all started. And we came up with the phrase -- I did. I'll take credit for this one, "make America great again," and that's what we want to do.
WALLACE: And many thanks to our team of producers and editors for staying up almost all night to put this hour together. Great job.
And that's it for today. Have a great week. And we'll see you next "Fox News Sunday."
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